Advantage and Disadvantage in PBTA games

I think there are two different things here.

One use for advantage/disadvantage is to replace the idea of getting a +1/-1 bonus, usually because of some setup in the fiction (preparatory move, aid, debility, whatever). Effects like these, in the form of +1 forward or -1 ongoing or whatever, have been around since the beginning. Replacing them with advantage/disadvantage is an attempt to fix some issues which have been perceived with just the straight numerical bonus or penalty. The jury is out on which version is better, but they are clearly both trying to do the same thing. If I remember rightly, Legacy does this.

Another use for advantage/disadvantage, which I think is what you’re thinking of, is to model some kind of external factor, such as the extrinsic difficulty of the task as judged by the GM. That’s a different thing. Attempts to model the difficulty of tasks is something that RPGs have been doing since the year dot, and it’s an interesting feature of PbtA that it generally doesn’t do that. Here’s what Vincent Baker says about modelling extrinsic difficulty in Apocalypse World:

People new to the game occasionally ask me for this one. It’s general, it modifies nearly every other move:

Things are tough. Whenever a players’ character makes a move, the MC judges it normal, difficult, or seriously difficult. If it’s difficult, the player takes -1 to the roll. If it’s seriously difficult, the player takes -2 to the roll.

Several groups in playtest wanted this move or one like it. All of them abandoned it after only one session. It didn’t add anything fun to the game, but did add a little hassle to every single move. So it’s a legal custom move, of course, and you can try it if you like, but I wouldn’t expect you to stick with it.

Now I don’t know Vagabonds of Dyfed, so I don’t know which version that game uses, but I do think it’s important to distinguish.

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All right, when I posted this message I didn’t realise that the original post was months old. (The forum software notified me of a new post, and I thought it was a new topic.)

There’s nothing wrong with that. It means newer people will now see and interact with the post too.

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This is one of my favorite threads. Ever.

For my money: We’re really close to getting the remaining numbers off the character sheets. Blades has shown us the way: handful of d6s.

We just need the results to line up more or less reasonably.

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For those who have had extensive play-time with the mechanic: Does the “roll 3 dice, keep the highest 2” feel good from a gameplay/game flow perspective?

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My opinion? Yes. It feels much better. Tactilely, it’s more gratifying. Psychologically, it feels more secure (or riskier for disadvantage). Cognitively, there’s less to remember and there are fewer cases where you go “did you remember to take +1 forward? Oh, I guess it wouldn’t make a difference.” Even if you forget to roll advantage until later, and then do, and it doesn’t change anything, it still feels better because it could have changed something.

If you use a number generator instead of dice, I can see how it’d be maybe more complex than beneficial. But I think it sings with physical dice.

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Nice. I’ve been considering doing away with the “Get Involved” Move in UW (because it created a nested resolution that was a real speed-bump to the pace), and I was toying with characters able to commit their help by rolling a single dice, to be picked up by the main roller or not. (I think a variation of that was mentioned above).

Still considering what opportunity costs are associated with that kind of helping each other out (otherwise why do anything else?), but I’m very interested in exploring this further.

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I would add that this is the central mechanic to Tiny D6 games…and it works great in keeping simplicity and suspense in rolling. That said, PbtA has partial successes which are move involved and more fun! Combining them could work really well, depending on the game.

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