Tooling: About to start my book using LaTex. Good Idea or No-Go?

If you know LaTeX well, and can make it jump through a few hoops (eg: using XeLaTeX for fonts, manipulating the page geometry, doing watermarks for page backgrounds, and using the manuscript style with good chapter headers) it will work. Or if the list of things I’ve put in brackets doesn’t put you off…

I used LaTeX to produce Age of Arthur, Starfall, Out of the Furnace, and the Liminal Quickstart and individual Case Notes. It works. It’s great for producing a table of contents, indexing, and hyperlinked PDFs.

Overall, I’d advise that it’s a good approach if you already know it from other work, but if you’re learning from scratch other packages would be easier to get good results out of…there are a few hoops to jump through to make your book look like something different to a technical document.

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Sounds cool and yes, this is the case. Already have background and cool looking Headers and boxes (with custom fonts), open are pictures but only because I did not start to include them, yet. I saw that there are some packages to help with that.

Overall, I’m pretty happy with it, the text looks beautiful. I hope to post some examples here soon.

Its a bit of work but if you got it right it stays right which is my modus of work: small but solid steps instead of leaping 3 steps forward 2 steps back.

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If you can use LaTex, then essentially: Do Use LaTex.

Better: If you can make it easier to use for RPGs? I’d love that.

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Just a quick note that I’m still working on it using LaTex. I make very slow progress not because of the tool or difficulties with it but because I’m a working dad and I play way too much Sekrio right now. I will show some examples, hopefully soon.

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I tried Scribus on my preview document and it was a huge pain. What I want is floating text (in contrast to page by page) because major part of my text is not fixed yet. I still change a lot and therefore I need a more flexible flow.

I feel your pain. Just been doing a one page questionnaire in Scribus, and it’s a hassle. Nothing really works as it should. Options I used moments ago are dimmed out, certain elements cannot be edited, the whole page disappears if I remove some elements or hide the layer that the element is in, grouping objects are useless because you cannot edit elements in the object because it seems like you never can select specific elements within a group, elements or master pages has disappeared, and so on.

Been working on and off with graphic design, mostly Indesign, for twenty years. What should have taken me 2-3 hours in Indesign, or even Google Documents, has taken me more than a work day to do.

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This sounds like it got even worse since my last try which was bad already.

I have done ten or so games with LaTeX, and I’m eight issues into a small gaming fanzine run.

Like you, I started with my thesis. I’ve had no problems with publishing print books via Lulu. Still haven’t figured out how to build PDFs that DriveThru accept for printing, for PDFs that are for tablets though, no problems.

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If you’re still in the research phase, then I think a couple things are worth looking at:

As @Thomas_Junk mentioned use a light format and apply pandoc (I start my docs as markdown)

Take a look at www.overleaf.com which can make editing LaTex nices. Though it might feel alien to LaTex afficianados.

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I’d like to mention (again) Affinity Publisher.


It has just been officially released and works great for a fair price.

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If you read this: Thanks for your patience, took me some time to pick up this topic again.

I promised feedback and pictures regarding using LaTex and here you go:

  • From the 80ies I remembered that installing/configuration of Latex was a major pain in the a**. This is no longer the case. What you need is a solid environment not only for the basic program but for installing additional packages on the fly (you’ll need lots of them). So, for me (= on Windows 10) the MikTex Distribution and then TeXworks on top took ca. 5 minutes to install. Worked at once, is flexible and installing new packages is only a click wayw. Awesome!
  • Latex promised to seperate content and layout and well … yes, a better then word regarding this but not 100%. I would compare it the html v3 instead of of html v5 + CSS.
  • You should be a programmer to like it. No WYSIWYG but code/compile/check, for me a lot of try and error. Try, and try, try again and try gain next day.
  • tons of good online resource for free. Examples, templates and most important answers to the usual questions. All there, nice people, lots of information. A lot of if feels like the internet in the 1990ies. No fancy guis, mostly text in forums (remember usenet?)
  • if you strive from the path you will be punished. If you just use the standard tools and layouts, you have your good looking document in no time… and it looks like all the other documents done with latex. If you want something special, you have to pay a price (findout how, install packages, learn package usage, try, try, try, etc.)

Now, here are some examples from my current WOP (compressed jpgs as screenshots from my pdf viwer) and I hope you find them beautiful

Example chapter start with quotes

Example customized Boxes and Tables

Example embeed pictures (tricky)

Example Tables (even more tricky those bast***)

Example Customized / reused Boxes

I’m happy to answer any questions or provide more details if wanted :slight_smile:

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Can I just say that I really dig your aesthetics? I mean, wow!

ETA: oh shit, sorry for the necro, didn’t realize this was two months ago.

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Thanks @Lari! Cool that you like the style. If you want more of this, I posted some aFoD art in the blades forum

Regarding 2 months ago: Praising is always in time :slight_smile:

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These look amazing! How did you achieve the effects on the first page? Can you share some of the resources you used? I am somewhat familiar with LaTeX, but these kind of tricks always eluded me!

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Snippet Time! Happy to share them. Often I checked the D&D template (s. link in original post) and edit their solution.
The first page is such a thing using the rpgarttop for the black/ripped background (needs tikz package)

\newcommand*{\rpgarttop}[1]{%
\begin{figure*}[!t]%
\begin{tikzpicture}[remember picture,overlay]
\node[inner sep=0pt, anchor=north] at (current page.north) {\includegraphics[width=\paperwidth]{#1}};
\end{tikzpicture}
\end{figure*}%
}

For the header quote I used the quotchap package
\newcommand{\aFoDHeaderQuote}[2]{
\begin{savequote}[90mm]
\vspace{-10mm}
\aFoDSettingFont
\textcolor{aFoDWhite}
{\large ‘#1’}
\qauthor{\textcolor{aFoDWhite}{\aFoDDingbatsFont\tiny N \aFoDSettingFont\normalsize #2}}
\end{savequote}
}

For the paper background I used backgroundsetup like this

% background image
\backgroundsetup{scale=1.0, angle=0, opacity=0.75,
contents={\includegraphics[width=\paperwidth, height=\paperheight,
%keepaspectratio
]
{img/A4_BW_Parchment.jpg}}}

The get this specific chapter look (display style) you have to use this code
\titleformat{\chapter}[display]
{\filleft} %format
{\vspace{-13mm}\color{aFoDWhite} \chaptername\ \thechapter}%label
{0pt} %sep
{\aFoDChapterFont\color{aFoDWhite}\huge} %use for seperate text scaling

I use local Fonts via fontspec package instead of full-blown latex fonts. Looks cooler even if the media-break is sometimes painful because positioning is off etc.

So, in the end the chapter looks like this:
\aFoDHeaderQuote{Get ready, Mateo. Doom is coming to dinner.}{MARSHAL McCAIN}
\chapter{INTRODUCTION}
\rpgarttop{img/BookHeader.png}

For graphical resources: I do them myself with (free) input from “creative market” and “Spoon Graphics”. Textures.com also has very good (also free) resources.

Hope this helps a bit. And thanks for the “amazin”, glad you like it.

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Forgot the black box:

That is a special box likes this
% Text Box with in game styling
\newtcolorbox{aFoDSettingBox}[5][]{
breakable,
blankest,
watermark graphics=#3,
watermark stretch=1.0,
boxsep=3mm,
coltext=white,
top=#4,
bottom=#5,
width=#2,
#1
}

and is called like that

\begin{aFoDSettingBox}{\linewidth}{img/StartingSitutation1.png}{5mm}{10mm}
\aFoDInitial{I}{t was a dark time}, and it just got much darker: As if living in a cruel & heartless frontier world was not enough, [… snip, snip …]
}

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This is amazing! Thanks a lot for sharing your techniques!

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So, I did the release last friday and therefor it’s time for a final word:

In the end it was painful. I missed the point in time where I should have seperated the whole book into different files and because of that every compile took ca. 90 seconds which sounds not too much but is a long time to wait for a small change.
But: because I have everything in one while renaming in a consistent way (like upper case for game terms) was easy to find and change.
So, would I recommend it? I don’t know. If you’re a programmer and therefor used to edit-compile-check-text-rework cycles, this may be your tool. If not, don’t and stick to your WYSIWYG.

One final challenge still open: POD via drivethrurpg. They have lots of recommandations how a pdf should look like and I’m not sure if my pdf is conform to all this. What I know already is that I have to create cover/backcover using scribus now, Latex won’t do.

So final final word: It’s excotic, but lots of resources are available. Big things are no problem, small things may be big problems. With strong google-fu and endurance is every problem solveable. If you have a deadline maybe you shouldn’t.

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If you were aware of these requirements beforehand, would you say it’s worth the effort to include them?

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Yes, I think so. I will give an update when I managed to “satisfy the interface” it’s just a bit of try and error. For other formats (like Indesign or Scribus) they provide templates and tutorials, so there it’s more straightforward. I think part of my is having more fun figuring it out by myself than working on long lists of point-here-then-click-that-button.

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As the books are out I want to come back to this question now with some insight regarding the print-angle of my endeavor.

Would I do my next book again with LaTex: Short answer is no. Why? Again the short answer is bleed. I did my pdf without a bleed margin and having a background texture and full page pictures is somewhat of a problem without bleed. I did not have the time and nerve to add it afterwards in LaTex.
Next book (if there is any) will see me working backwards from the printing template using Affinity Designer added bleed from the start.

But: What I really like about latex is the stability of the layout which you may think as regression testing (remember, I have a progammer background): Make a change in the document (like removing typos) and if this is a minor change you can be 100% sure that the rest of the text will not change and look excactly the same than before.

So, final word: You can to amazing things with LaTex but it will cost you (learning-time, compile time, nerves).

If you have questions, please ask. I’m happy to anser and talk about my experiences.

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