Uncharted Worlds 2nd Edition - Alpha

Brief update: Work on v05 of the Alpha is going well. Expanding the Harm section to properly incorporate Asset Harm and Resistance rules, and working on the Economy section.

On that note, I wanted to talk about Crew as Assets. Back in UW1, I had interpreted Crew as a sort of independent Asset that characters could have. Leaving aside the unintentional problematic situation of, like, owning people, it still created a bit of a weird gameplay unbalance, where the GM was expected to take on additional roles that were subservient to a specific character.

This could often lead to scenarios where either a given characterā€™s Asset took up too much of the overall game time (because they were independent, free willed, loyal, and capable) or the Asset was a dud or a detriment (because they would get into trouble, refuse to do things, and generally be jerks). Additionally, unlike most Assets, a Crew could theoretically be there to assist and interact with all the characters.

Iā€™ve got my own thoughts on how to approach this, but Iā€™d love to hear opinions on the idea of ā€œowningā€ NPC Crew as an Asset, or if there are specific games that do that idea particularly well.

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Iā€™ve seen it played in Blades in the Dark and Apocalypse World. The crew is simply not played by the player, but are used like traditional Skills. Only the success / failure / cost are taken from the palette of ā€œthe burden of powerā€. I think @The_Bearded_Belgian knows these tropes well from a game he created about an ancient King with tough decisions to make.

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Iā€™m of the mind that ā€˜Crewā€™ as a concept is too varied to treat as a mere Asset. Thereā€™s a world of difference between Players who want:

  • a nameless faceless crew under their command
  • a trusted contact
  • a personalized team
  • a robot to follow them around
  • or a Chewbacca for their Han Solo

Thereā€™s also a sliding scale of a Player being fine to have crew as an NPC vs a Player wanting a companion that they have control over, like a space wizard and their familiar. And in a similar vein, as you say, the issue of investing in Crew possibly feeling like a detriment or dud based on the GM. Personally, I think the only way to fix this is to always have Crew be under the control of the Player, with clearly defined mechanics as to what they can do.

As an aside, perhaps generating Crew, in whatever form they might take, could be a part of character creation? The galaxy is a big place, and no matter how much of a loner you might be, everyone knows at least someone. This has the advantage of fleshing out backgrounds and giving the GM story hooks to use, as well as signaling early on for the players that the presence of crew should be something they think about (e.g. it should be discussed whether having teams of people onboard the ship fits with the planned tone and setting of the game). Not to mention that Crew could really gum up a Shipā€™s components, in the sense that the Playersā€™ Ship potentially needs to have living space for all of them, if everyone chooses to have Crew onboard the ship rather than as contacts. So it really benefits the game to think about this as soon as possible.

I like how Companions ( http://companions-aw.org/ ) handles its ā€˜The Commanderā€™ playbook, which has the Player being the leader of a small team. You can have a maximum of 3 characters in your team, but can increase the max size through advancement. You divide 3 ā€˜esteemā€™ among the Team members, with each character starting at 0 esteem, and you raise a single characterā€™s esteem by 1 every time you advance. When a character reaches 1 esteem they gain a ā€˜specialtyā€™, which allows them to use a single Move in your stead or at your command, and they roll with +esteem. They get +1 forward to this move if their specialty matches yours. Any consequence happens to them instead of you, and you canā€™t gain any experience from their actions.

To adapt this mechanic for UW, one idea might be that Crew always matches one of the Careers, but they only have one half of their Career Move. For example, an Academic Crew might be able to ā€œanalyze biological, political, or economic dataā€, but be unable to ā€œinspect debris, damage, materials, or artifactsā€. And if a Player doesnā€™t want multiple crew members, perhaps they can spend multiple ā€˜Crew Slotsā€™ on a single Crew to give them more abilities. A Player could also choose to assign their starting Assets to their Crew, such as having a Protocol Droid Crew with a built-in (Cybernetics) universal language translator.

Of course, these ideas donā€™t really handle large ā€˜Teamā€™/ā€˜Facelessā€™ Crews. But maybe itā€™s better to always treat such groups as pure NPCs that will generally follow the commands of the player characters to the best of their abilities, with outcomes dictated according to and appropriate to the narrative. After all, they arenā€™t necessarily all loyal to you, and thereā€™s issues of how to track damage for the group, etc.

Itā€™s not only a question of power balance or narrative focus. Flagging problems attached to a capacity is nice, but itā€™s also an order the player makes at the table.
But then, if the crew is a Chewbacca, itā€™s always around, always close : someone needs to play it, or maybe they are limited in their expression and action. And thatā€™s problematic in another way that a faceless mob of gangsters or sectist is not.

I have been tagged and thus should answer. :slight_smile:
Many of my games are about what it means to be a leader (rulers mostly) and thus focus on these things. Which is to say that it mostly works because itā€™s the focus of the game to be a leader. It will make you care, possibly, about what the people you rule over/lead/etc do. Itā€™s also meant to teach, so itā€™s a bit in-your-face and refers to principles learned in (religion) class.

Mainly it comes up with me as a sort of GM playing the world the kids playing the game are ruling over. If they mistreat their population, there might be a rebellion. If they rule well they might be celebrated. If they show mercy and give enemies a second chance the enemy might better their life and turn into an ally (but they also might not, although, seeing they are kids and the concepts I teach, more often it will).

I havenā€™t read the document, so Iā€™m not sure what the question is, but Iā€™d think on what specific consequences might be of good management or mismanagement of your ā€œcrewā€. If itā€™s PbtA, have some thought about mixed results. Questions where you need to make choices that will always hurt someone in the group, that will bring division and create tension. Then they will need to balance choices to keep the group together and such. I think those might be issues that might be ā€˜funā€™ for a leader type to explore.

I also usually emphasize the two main types of leaders. The Boss type leader, who sets the rules for others, who demands things and is very strict in that regard. And then youā€™ve got the Lead-By-Example type leader that leads by showing how itā€™s done, by helping out his or her crew, by being caring and compassionate about them. The main example is King Saul versus King David in the Bible, but a more apt one is King Herod (the older, the one who killed innocent babies to remain in power) vs. Jesus as ā€œKing of the Jewsā€ or ā€œKing of Heavenā€ (who washed the feet of His disciples and died in the place of others so that mankind could live).

These are of course extreme examples, and most people would fall somewhere between the two on the axis, but yeah, those are things leaders are known for.

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I appreciate the feedback, itā€™s certainly given me food for thought. Especially the divide between squads and allies.

Squads
In moving to a more tight-knit, self-sufficient default setting, I feel that there may be less room for sprawling multi-person crews. Yes, thereā€™s a certain thrill in playing the Chief Engineer with a crew of workers, or a Head of Security with a bunch of cops/enforcers at your beck and call, but I donā€™t feel they fit, mechanically.

Thereā€™s always part of me that wants UW to be a wide-open game that can let people play the setting and scope they want. But at the end of the day, PbtA-style mechanics are closely tied to genre, and UW is firmly in the Big Damn Hero space opera. I fear Trek-style large crew gameplay would end up being superficial and unsatisfying. Or just a completely different game (hmmmā€¦ note for the future).

Allies
As @DeReel mentioned, the issue with making a Chewbacca-style NPC is that while they get second-billing, their importance in the plot is undeniable. They are 50-75% of a PC, which is a lot of responsibility and mental overhead. Someone has to play that character. And more importantly, there have to be systems in place to make them more than obedient, mindless automatons. They should instigate, attract, or suffer drama. They should act, succeed, and fail.

I feel NPC crewmates have more of a place in UW as itā€™s shaping up, but not as a player-owned Asset. They certainly could fulfil specific roles that the ship needs, which is especially useful with smaller, 2-3 player groups.

Iā€™m toying with a very simplified ā€˜NPC creationā€™ system, choosing one of the 10 Careers that most represents their skillset, and would incorporate Burdens, just like a player character. Possibly even a random burden.

Design issues to be addressed:

  • Who creates them? How many NPCs can you have?
  • Are they equals? Do they share in rewards? Can they leave, be fired, be replaced?
  • Who decides what they do, what they say, how they act? Who plays them?
  • Can they act alone? Can they assist the player characters?
  • How do we resolve their actions? How do we determine if they succeed?

Iā€™ll keep tinkering with this on my end, but if anyone has any further opinions or examples, Iā€™m super open.

Hello, the ā€œanchorageā€ of the stories is important too : a NPC on a planet is not the same role as a NPC on a ship. AW (then BoB) builds a community and itā€™s mostly the GM thinking ā€œoffscreenā€ eyes on the Relationship-map to bring drama toward PCs.

Even after it didnā€™t work out in UW1, thereā€™s still part of me that wants to add narrative to UW2ā€™s economy and move away from a galactic standard currency. Itā€™s probably a bad idea! Butā€¦

My latest design is basically a sliding scale for the ship/crewā€™s resources and lifestyle. Each level has its own mini-ruleset and narrative expectations.

  • Falling apart
  • Scraping by
  • Breaking even
  • Comfortable
  • Well appointed
  • High class

While this certainly helps create a certain tone (and gives a mid- to long-term goal to aim for), the actual mechanics of stuff like ā€œhow do we actually get from x to yā€ is still a mystery.

Feels like it could use wealth/credits as experience to level up? Or maybe each level would have a number of achievements, and if you complete a % of them, you move up economically. And if you donā€™t do any (or if you do the ā€œanti-achievementsā€) you drop down. Hm.

As a design exercise (all values subject to change yadda yadda)


SCRAPING BY
You have barely enough to keep flying, and you often have to make sacrifices and compromises in your day-to-day. Food is bland and rationed, thereā€™s little spare power, and your gear is rough but serviceable.

  • Disadvantage on Shore Leave.
  • Can afford and maintain up to three Class 1 assets.
  • Little spending money.

Advancement | +10 increase to ā€œBreaking evenā€, -10 decrease to ā€œFalling apartā€
Completed an easy job: ++
Completed a lucrative job: ++++
Sold a unit of cargo: +
Docking and refueling: - -
Ship repairs: - -
Medical care: -


(Each tier of wealth would have its own + and - triggers)

Iā€™d appreciate thoughts on this. It feels like Iā€™m poking around something interesting, but Iā€™ve been burned before.

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Iā€™ll admit that tracking multiple things isnā€™t my preference, so Iā€™d hope tracking wealth was optional rather than baked in.

If I think about why resources are important then I come down to flavour ā€¦ a reason these characters are on the game, so I see it more a session zero conversation than a mechanic.

Once it becomes a mechanic then you can get into disparities between what different characters can do in the game world starts to twist what Iā€™m looking for in a space opera. I guess you can make it a choice for playgroups as an improvement for which they can cash in XP ā€¦

Bottom line ā€¦ I canā€™t think of many players I know who come to PbtA for that kind of trad resource tracking or inventory management.

Thatā€™s true. Greatness has no metric.
And maybe you still want some quickly verbally + mechanicallly defined options for various flavors of the game ?

ā€œX successful mission criteriaā€ is obvious when using Other kind : one dice for each criterion. The implementation either falls into place or falls off.

Regarding the crew or followers, I might consider using something like the Followers rules from Stonetop.

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FWIW I really like how Star Trek Adventures does Crew/followers as Quick Characters that anyone can namedrop when they donā€™t have the stats to make a roll. they start out as a standard array of a few stats and then unlock more parts of the character sheet specialties and drives every time they make an appearance. It feels like a great reward for player investment in NPCs

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I canā€™t wait the Alpha v5ā€¦ :slight_smile: Our UW2 experimental session is starting this weekendā€¦ :slight_smile:

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Well then! Letā€™s have a new Alpha version, shall we?

+++ DOWNLOAD UW2 ALPHA V5+++


Changelog

  • New: Economic System - Wealth Tiers (p. 30-32)
  • New: Economic System - Creds (p. 33)
  • Updated: Asset Rules + Asset Stress (p. 7-8)
  • Updated: Downtime Moves (p. 29)
  • Updated: Origins - Downtime Bonuses (p. 12-16)

Iā€™ll admit, this one took longer than anticipated. I had originally started working on a fully Cred-based system, but after polling the community I felt it would be worthwhile to at least give the Debt/Favor system one final shake.

The result is (in my estimation) a fairly interesting two-tier economic system, dividing the macro-level advancement (ship-centric, party-based wealth) and individual-level purchases (creds). I ended up linking the Downtime/healing mechanics to the wealth tiers, as well as fines for colleterial damage, crime, and dereliction of duty, which adds an extra layer of slightly dystopian decision-making (ā€œcan we afford to make this decision?ā€)

The hope is that each wealth tier creates a different game feel, and increasing the overall lifestyle aboard the ship can be a rewarding midgame-to-endgame goal. Starting at different wealth tiers can have a big impact on the feel of the game, from the scrappy rebels who are just Scraping By, to the the Well Off crew of Starfleet.

As usual, I encourage folks to post thoughts, impressions, and feedback! The community has been a fantastic source of inspiration and drive, and I couldnā€™t have gotten this far without you all.

@Gombos_Zsolt I hope the game goes well! Please update us if you have the chance.

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So, first off I really love what youā€™re doing with Assets as well as the new Stress system. The Downtime stuff is also looking really great! I havenā€™t gotten the chance to try it out with my current group yet (weā€™re currently playing the original Uncharted Worlds, and are thinking of at least partially updating), but it looks really cool and promising!

Iā€™ve been playing an AI in our game, which has been very fun despite obviously not being heavily supported by the base rules. Weā€™ve tried to come up with sufficient limitations so as to keep things interesting, but generally the GM has just trusted me not to go crazy with the character. I like to think Iā€™ve been doing well with that. Mostly itā€™s just been me jumping between systems/networks controlling things for the other players. Or Iā€™ll download into a drone body to run around and do stuff. Weā€™ve been playing around with the physical stats changing based on the body, and we arenā€™t really sure how the bodies should be classified anyway. Currently theyā€™re Assets, but there have been some awkward moments in figuring out how to make that work. If you have any ideas on how youā€™d run a player AI, Iā€™d love to hear them!

Jumping back to the original subject of the 2e alpha, Iā€™m feeling kind of uncertain on the Career Moves. Namely, the fact that thereā€™s only one per Career. The Skills themselves are great. Powerful, broad-reaching, and generally really well flavored with the two alternate stats. Without subdivisions within the career though, or smaller optional skills/moves, it seems like it will reduce character diversity a fair bit. In our current game, several characters have overlapping careers and weā€™ve sometimes had trouble not stepping on each othersā€™ toes. If the entire career were a single move, then there would be a lot of overlap with little to no difference between the charactersā€™ capabilities. Iā€™m certainly not going to make a final decision on whether I like it until Iā€™ve actually tried it out, but I was wondering how you came to the decision to have a single move per career?

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Hi! Thanks so much for checking out the Alpha stuff. Really appreciate the feedback.

This is really a interesting (and quite philosophical) question. ā€œWhat is a bodyā€ kinda thing. Since physical stats change with body, but personality, education, and experience donā€™t, it leads to a lot of potential pitfalls. While I hate to say it (because I want as many people to find something they like in UW), I fear that this kind of transhumanism is quite hard to pull off effectively in a lasers-and-drama style Space Opera game.

One of the issues I ran into with UW1 is that characters were super front-loaded. A starting character had so many options that it wasnā€™t as approachable as the rest of the ruleset. At the same time, advancement was kinda wishy-washy, since you usually already had everything you needed to embody your archetype.

In UW2 Iā€™m trying to strike a better balance between character creation and character progression. A base character should ease players into the game, not overwhelm them, and a lot of the refining and diversity will come with advancement. (Alpha v06 will have the first pass of the Advancement system!)

That said, Iā€™ve run games with two characters who had literally the same build (Clandestine Scoundrels) but different Stat compositions, gear, and Origins. That ended up making a noticeable difference in-game, just from how they chose to approach problems:

  • One was Force + Finesse with a Crowded Origin, a NeoYakuza swordsman
  • The other was Influence + Finesse with a Galactic Origin, a con-artist/drifter.

Sure they both used the Scoundrelā€™s ā€œPreyā€ move, though one tended to use it to sneak attack, and the other to deceive. And sure they both snuck around using the Clandestineā€™s Access, but that ended up allowing them to work in tandem really well.

My hope is to make Moves that ā€œstackā€ well, that donā€™t invalidate each other in multiples. Itā€™s definitely something I intend to keep an eye on as I tinker with the game, though, so I appreciate raising the red flag.

(I encourage you to give it a try as a mental exercise: using only the rules as written, try making two very different characters with the exact same Career combination.)

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This is really a interesting (and quite philosophical) question. ā€œWhat is a bodyā€ kinda thing. Since physical stats change with body, but personality, education, and experience donā€™t, it leads to a lot of potential pitfalls. While I hate to say it (because I want as many people to find something they like in UW), I fear that this kind of transhumanism is quite hard to pull off effectively in a lasers-and-drama style Space Opera game.

I have a couple of media examples that did a pretty decent job without making it a focus: Dark Matter
and Andromeda - The ships computer eventually get a robot body and there is still lasers-and drama in both. Maybe if they are treated just like any other character but the advantage is they have a backup drive somewhere and they also have a significant disadvantage? Itā€™s just that the game I ran felt like for a role for the shipā€™s computer would fit. How to design it? IDK.

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A bit last minute, but Iā€™m running an impromptu UW2 playtest live on Twitch this evening, if anyone is interested in watching. Iā€™ll be using my work-in-progress version of the Alpha rules (Alpha 05a, which you can check out here).

If youā€™re interested in how the UW2 rules fare in their current state, come check it out. Itā€™ll be interesting to get observer feedback on sticking points or areas of confusion.

Where: https://www.twitch.tv/infiniteverseuw (not my channel, Iā€™m usually a player in his campaign)
When: Tonight at 7pm EST

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Our UW2 starter ship (in Google Spreadsheet).

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Yooooooo! Thatā€™s so awesome! Love the icons.

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