Games to Make Players Better Players

#1

Building on that “What are Things You See Good Players Do” thread, what are some games people use that make players better players? These can be one-shots, multi-session games, whatever.

And by better player my meaning is partially to break habits like optimization and combat focus that 5e embed in players. One thing I’ve experienced when trying to get my game group to play Blades in the Dark or a PBtA game is they approach them the same way they would D&D and have a hard time adjusting, which makes for a frustrating game.

Alongside this what games do people recommend for nurturing more improv ability? A complaint one of my player’s makes is that they would love to play a RPG with a rich setting, but feel that they couldn’t do the setting justice and feel like they’re letting the game down because they don’t have the imaginative chops.

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#2

I’d maybe go for something like Microscope or (to a slightly lesser extent) Kingdom to get them out of the mindset of playing from behind a single character’s eyes? Kind of a ripping off the plaster approach, but the games make it basically impossible to fall into the “bad habits” from D&D. Also, they work perfectly for one-shots, so even if they don’t get the most enjoyment out of the game, they’re not committing to X sessions of it.

Edit: Also, it may help assuage the fears of your player who doesn’t feel like they could improv a rich setting

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#3

A couple of things that have had success in some degree or another for me:

  • imagination issues: warm ups help, as do safety tools. And, I like to emphasize that only what happens at the table is Canon, that this is our story. We may start with discworld or whatever, but it is only what happens at the table that matters.

This last is freeing, as it makes it clear we are not bound by what’s in the setting book. We serve no masters.

Regarding the mentality: Many many words have been written on this. the Forge had so much advice about exactly this. I got out of that headspace thanks to fiasco, but I’ve also seen that backfire. Heh, monsterhearts is always a fun way to go - go ahead, try to optimize being a teenager.

Some thoughts. Others with have better ones.

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#4

@jtreat3’s Strange Gravity. Full stop. I had the pleasure of playing this in person back in January with @yoshi, @mxh, @xaithegamer, @Ari_Tobias, and others. As soon as we were done we were trying to figure out how we could run it online. (It is designed as a LARP.) The reason being that we saw how clearly it taught so many amazing habits.

It’s basically a game to play something like Star Trek or Firefly. Everyone has a role they play (Captain, XO, Counselor, Diplomat, Warrior, Pilot, etc.). But those roles also are the division of labor vis-a-vis meta responsibility. So the Captain is in charge of the main arc of the story, the XO is the one who frames scenes, the Counselor can at any point say who characters have relationships with, the Diplomat is the only one who can bring in NPCs, the Pilot is in charge of pacing and moving the ship from location to location (ie if the role isn’t in play the story will be focused on one location). My favorite teaching part is that the majority of the roles basically require you to interrupt the action to do the required meta thing.

Normally, we tend to be against interruptions and tend to find people who interrupt in games annoying or rude. But this teaches you to interrupt when you feel it is necessary. The reason I see this as being really important to learn is that it applies directly to safety. I think many people end up not activating a safety tool because they don’t want to interrupt. This game helps you get over that hesitation to interrupt if it is important.

To be honest we thought it might even be a fantastic starter game for introducing people to the Gauntlet and our play culture. It was really that good.

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#5

I’ve found GMless games that put players into roles that ask questions of the world and each other the most powerful tools there. Games that require you to have a little creative pressure, but have that guided like for the queen, the quiet year card, and the king is dead.

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#6

I’ll second Strange Gravity, which very cleverly apportions meta-tasks in a way that makes them very obvious, and can be hugely instructive.

I think Archipelago III is a great game for teaching and honing skills in a trusting group. Its ritual phrases mechanize the sort of kind prosocial feedback loop you see informally at the tightest, best tables.

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#7

The thing that improved my ability to improv most was improv. Go take a class together. Don’t get sucked into the cult, but even a 101 class will be both fun and informative, particularly if you can find an instructor who gets why you are taking it. Invite them to game with you!

Karen Twelves’ Improv for Gamers is an excellent resource.

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#8

So I listened to this really great podcast with some great suggestions along these lines. from the author of Improv For Gamers. Maybe you’ve heard of it? :wink:

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#9

When I got my improv troupe together to do some gaming, it was amazing.
Until schedules got in the way.
Gaming with theatre people is the best and the worst.

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#10

I definitely saw a few things click over for players when I ran Dread at a convention. The questionnaires opened up some ways for them to look at characters.
Question: “Why does you hate your job?”
Player: “What’s my job?”
Me: “I don’t know. It’s your character.”

I’ve found that games that de-emphasize the mechanics help. When I’ve had people doing PbtA games for the first time, getting them not to worry about the moves and just let me activate them as they go helps. GMless games or games that involve Troupe Style play (Thank you, Ars Magica) have also opened up some wonderful things for players.

As @Jmstar mentioned–improv classes help. I’m a bit prejudiced but I’d especially recommend something more long form oriented. A good improv class will start off with character/scene work but I’ve seen people who were trained to play gamey improv that find themselves stuck pretty quickly.

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#11

Oh heck yes Strange Gravity. How did I forget; we went from fine players to the best we’ve ever been thanks to Strange Gravity.

But: It is a really hard game. It’s perfect for the right sort of players who’re ready for a challenge, but maybe not right for every group.

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#12

Yeah, the best prep I got for GMing was a BFA in Theater Direction.

It’s also the only way I’ve ever made any money off that degree.

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#13

And by better player my meaning is partially to break habits like optimization and combat focus that 5e embed in players.

My preference in RPGs matches your own, strongly. I prefer getting deeply into character and focusing on the story. But it’s important to remember that is not The Correct Way and doesn’t make me a better player in any measure beyond myself. Lots of players play D&D (etc) because they enjoy character-build optimization, puzzle solving, and/or efficient combat. None of them are wrong, and none of that makes them bad players or worse players, it just means we enjoy different things.

Sometimes we can play together, focus on different things, and all have fun. Sometimes not so much. And sometimes, I can try a bit of their chocolate and enjoy it, and they can try a bit of my peanut butter and enjoy it. While I will always try to share what’s fun to me with others, I endeavor to remind myself that my playstyle is not better than anyone else’s, and that judging another player’s ‘skill’ at a game is productive for no one. (I definitely did that as a teenager, and goodness am I cringing now.)

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#14

Thanks for saying this. One of the “best” players I’ve ever played with, as in, made every table they were at a total blast, did a lot of optimizing and efficient combat. I firmly believe that players of PCs have as much a role in making a game enjoyable as GMs do, but being good at the mechanical aspects of the game doesn’t get in the way of that. (And, for certain games and playstyles, really helps.)

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