How to make fight in Dungeon World epic aka why the "16 hp dragon" is awesome?

#1

Yes I’ve read the “16 hp dragon” and while it is awesome it also leaves me completely clueless as to what happened there, what moves happened and what were the results etc. I can clearly see that situation happening with players rolling few misses in a row, but would it be very different have they rolled 10+ all the time?

I started my GM career ages ago from very trad Warhammer and ever since I try to transition to story games I never managed to learn/nail how to make fighting large monsters epic as it should be without it being so mechanically driven as in trad games.

When I watch (for example on YT or Adam Koebel live) I see two things:

  1. Triggering Hack and Slash or Volley too often can make the fight very trivial and boring because players can chose to take no damage while they deal damage to the monster.
  2. The fight is more interesting the more Defy Danger or other moves are triggered, but I as MC have little influence over what moves players want to trigger, so if they want to “shoot” or “hack” at the monster all the time?

How do you make fighting large monsters in Dungeon World epic and interesting?
Please share with me your tricks & tips.

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#2

The monsters use terrain, so the heroes have to go over broken buildings/run through fire/cut through vines (rolling defy danger) in order to get into position, if they fail then one of the choices can be taking harm from the monster while they are getting to it.

Remove the default of monsters infront of you in clear weather with no cover, in reality there would be trees/rock walls/buildings in the way, the monster is moving fast to attack from above/the side not sitting still in front.

The monster can use its might and cunning, it smashes a boulder/wagon/another pc at your fighter, so your fighter can’t do hack and slash because it just smashed them backwards 30ft or threw them into their air -thus other pcs can try to catch/aid the fighter, meanwhile the monster is moving to attack the wizard.

Its a 3D environment, monsters will burrow up from the ground, swoop down from the sky, use cover, try to drag heroes into narrow areas where their friends can’t help them. Wolves, Hunting Cats and Killer whales will prey on those alone or wounded, and these are animals. Most monsters are considered even smarter.

But this is all combat focused, so maybe the paladin hurts the dragon, so the dragon now considers the heroes worthy, grabs the wizard and flies up suggests parlay, it then offers a mission against a mutual enemy…

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#3

Good advice above. Only thing I’ll add is that one thing that helps me is thinking about it like I’m making a movie–what would look cool as heck on the screen? What’s the beat-by-beat during this amazing set piece? Thinking more cinematically is key to making combat work well in DW.

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#4

This is mostly just elaboration on what @BlakeRyan said, but:

(thanks for asking the question, btw… it got me to dig out some old advice from the Tavern and post on the blog)

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#5

The first consideration is that you can’t Hack and Slash a dragon unless you’re in a position to do so. You can’t just whack at its ankles like you’re in a MMORPG raid. In order to Hack and Slash, you’re going to need to get near its head to stab at its mouth or throat, or underneath it to pierce some vulnerability in its underbelly. That’s at minimum a Defy Danger or two before you’re able to Hack and Slash, and then the thing’s going to keep moving, so you keep needing to Defy Danger to keep in position to strike.

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#6

Agreed with dunadhaigh. Avoid the mentality of standing 5 feet apart and exchanging blows.

Dragons are (supposed to be) terrifying - its menacing gaze and hungry visage falling upon a PC is enough to trigger a roll to avoid freaking out. Consider what happens when your friend stands wide-eyed and paralyzed-with-fear as the massive creature’s head rears back, preparing to swallow them whole. What do you do?

Epic creatures are also massive and nearly invulnerable - make tearing off a scale be a prerequisite before it can even be hurt, then if the PCs manage to get the scale, well, an epic monster didn’t become epic by being an idiot so may do everything in its considerable means to not let the PCs stand 5 feet away from its exposed belly and swing at it.

From 16hp dragon, its attack was also devastating - it wasn’t delivering a wound that the cleric simply fixes when their initiative comes up, making everything as good as new. It can grab a PC in its jaws, grinding them down automatically, prompting the other PCs to do all sorts of shenanigans to free them cuz they are going to die very soon otherwise. Or a giant worm can squirm on top of a PC, crushing it under tonnes of weight, immobilizing it. That’s functionally the same sort of thing as being in a dragon’s jaws - that PC is done unless the others save them and saving them doesn’t mean killing the monster, in fact, it probably takes far too long to kill it and the PC won’t survive…

Rewatch the Cave Troll fight from LotR and imagine how they would have handled it if max-level Legolas wasn’t there.

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#7

If you don’t mind video game spoilers, check out a video of the boss fight versus the dragon in Dragon’s Dogma (e.g., https://youtu.be/jAgIKrAkTT). It can help illustrate some of the concepts offered above, in case reading it on text feels too abstract. It’s not just a matter of hitting it enough times until it dies, but dodging until you are in a good position, revealing the weak spot, and surviving until you are in the position to strike the final blow—and then dealing with the fallout of that.

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